Eric Redmond on ‘gay marriage’

An excellent exposition of the biblical view on homosexuality and the sins of church people. 

The conclusion:

The church should not and must not accept unrepentant homosexuals–or unrepentant sinners of any type of transgressions–into membership.

The church did not make the rules for her standards of conduct. The one true God, who is holy in all of his ways, made the standards. It is he who offers to you to believe on Jesus Christ so that he might give you salvation from your sins. He offers you Christ so that you may become a sinner saved by grace who lives holy among God’s people–the church.

So if it is acceptance you are seeking, go to Jesus first. Once you have met him in repentance, all of the other redeemed sinners will be glad to accept you!

The full article bears reading, both by those who don’t want gays in the church — and those who think the church has nothing to say to gays about homosexuals  and repentance.

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About Mark Kelly

Jesus follower, Bible reader, husband/father/son/brother/uncle, rider, hiker, snapshooter
This entry was posted in 'Gay marriage', Christian bloggers, Countercultural Christianity, Homosexuality, Scripture and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

7 Responses to Eric Redmond on ‘gay marriage’

  1. Admin says:

    In response to a note from a friend:

    There is no unwillingness to love people who are different. There is an unwillingness to dismiss what the Scripture clearly says about rejecting God’s creative intent to engage in homosexual activity. Having homosexual feelings isn’t a sin; it’s a brokenness. Acting on those feelings is what is sinful. Just because I feel drawn to something doesn’t mean it’s OK, especially when Scripture clearly says it is wrong.

    The studies I have read about do not clearly demonstrate that biology causes homosexuality. Like I said in our previous conversation, I’m willing to grant that biology sometimes plays a role, but even if it was determinative, that doesn’t mean it should just be accepted. Biology plays a role in many conditions; some of them we identify as birth defects and seek ways to prevent them. But there are many factors involved in any psychological dysfunction. I’ve corresponded with one psychologist who believes birth order even plays a role, in combination with abuse and neglect. Sinful desire certainly plays a role. And Romans 1 says the refusal to acknowledge the Lord as God and give him thanks plays a role.

    Godly love doesn’t mean telling a broken soul his brokenness is normal; godly love means being honest with each other about our brokenness and calling each other toward forgiveness and healing in Christ. No one here needs to pick on gays to have someone to vilify. My goal isn’t to feel better about my own struggles but to link arms with others who struggle with sin, just like I do, and together walk toward the wholeness Christ has in
    store for us. Pretending homosexuality is God’s best for our lives isn’t any more loving than pretending greed, lust, or self-righteousness is his intent.

    When we reject the Scripture and centuries of church teaching about homosexuality, or any other subject, we’ve cut ourselves adrift from objective truth. And if feelings are all we have to go on for knowing the truth about our Creator and ourselves, then no feelings should be denied.

  2. augustine says:

    The studies I have read about do not clearly demonstrate that biology causes homosexuality. Like I said in our previous conversation, I’m willing to grant that biology sometimes plays a role, but even if it was determinative, that doesn’t mean it should just be accepted. Biology plays a role in many conditions; some of them we identify as birth defects and seek ways to prevent them. But there are many factors involved in any psychological dysfunction. I’ve corresponded with one psychologist who believes birth order even plays a role, in combination with abuse and neglect. Sinful desire certainly plays a role. And Romans 1 says the refusal to acknowledge the Lord as God and give him thanks plays a role.

    ‘Sinful desire’? Is there a scientific paper you can link me to that includes that concept?

    I’m curious about something else, too: if it’s ever found that homosexuality is both biologically determined and, in the majority of cases, completely immutable, what then? Should the church continue in advising celibacy?

  3. Admin says:

    A scientific paper that includes the concept of sinful desire? Beats me. I don’t think the Scripture specifically addresses the issue of biological determinism either. So what?

    Speculative “what if” games can be played all day. If science one day proved that homosexuality is never biologically determined and is not completely immutable, would people who choose to engage in homosexual conduct decide to become celibate?

    The facts seem to be that studies have not demonstrated biological determinism and the Scripture says choosing to engage in homosexual conduct is sinful. No matter what develops on the first count, the second one will never change. Whether we like what it says or not, it is God’s Word.

  4. augustine says:

    You’re sidestepping the issue. The current opinion of groups like Exodus International is that homosexuality is neither intrinsice nor immutable, yet this opinion runs contrary to almost every scientific organisation that has issued a statement on the subject. Exodus claims that achieving celibacy is the best that some ‘recovering’ homosexuals can manage, yet this position is only reasonable if something more than that is possible – in other words, if it truly is possible to ‘overcome’ homosexuality and fulfill God’s desire for all humans to engage solely in heterosexual relationships.

    If that is ever found to definitively not be the case, what then? And keep in mind that Scripture provides no advice here; if the scenario I’ve presented ever comes to pass (and indeed, some would say that it already has), the church will need to come to a decision about how to handle homosexuality itself.

  5. Admin says:

    I am sidestepping nothing. I am plainly saying that studies have not demonstrated biological determinism. Some studies have been interpreted through a filter of wishful thinking. Others have been ignored by homosexual activists and their media friends.

    I also am plainly saying that proving lust or greed or self-righteousness is genetic wouldn’t change my responsibility before God to live according to his Word, rather than my feelings.

    That was, by the way, my answer to your hypothetical. You seemed to have missed it.

    Would you care to offer an answer to my hypothetical? I suspect we both know what it is. The Scripture talks about that too.

  6. augustine says:

    If homosexuality was proven to not be biologically determined or immutable? Then nobody would have to remain celibate, because they could simply change their sexual orientation.

    I also am plainly saying that proving lust or greed or self-righteousness is genetic wouldn’t change my responsibility before God to live according to his Word, rather than my feelings.

    That is not the point I’m trying to make. At the moment, the vast majority of reactions to homosexuality by the religious right are based largely on the assumption that homosexuality can be changed – hence Exodus’ rhetoric. Note: they’re not just saying that it might be changeable, they’re claiming that it definitely is. A great many gay Christians are also encouraged to seek counselling or some other form of reparative therapy on the assumption that their sexual orientation is not permenant or biologically determined. Are you saying that these policies would not change if their underlying assumption was proven to be false?

  7. Admin says:

    If homosexuality were proven to not be biologically determined or immutable, then there would be no question that homosexual behavior was a choice. And there would be no question that we are free to choose God’s way or our own. It wouildn’t be a matter of changing an “orientation,” it would be clearly a matter of our own determination to make a sinful choice. And most of us prefer the sinful choices over the godly ones. I know I do. My lower nature wins out way too often. But at least I admit the sin, accept forgiveness, and continue to seek wholeness.

    I can’t speak to the policies of a group like Exodus, but any brokenness can be changed. That doesn’t mean change is easy or that living free doesn’t require struggle. It’s easier to live in slavery to our lower nature. But that’s not God’s best for us.

    The core question, as always, is whether we accept God’s way or reject it for our own desires.

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